Robert Spencer: “Two-state Solution is a Myth”
Barry Nussbaum: Welcome to ATP Report, I'm Barry Nussbaum. Back again is our favorite expert on the Palestinian peace process Robert Spencer. He's the editor and founder of Jihad Watch and has a new book out, The Palestinian Delusion. I urge our viewers to go get it at Barnes and Noble or Amazon.com. We're going to dive into it again now and get to the main thesis. Robert thanks for coming back.
Robert Spencer: Thank you.
Barry Nussbaum: So in your book, The Palestinian Delusion, you describe an aspect of previous peace plans that they all seem to have the same or similar fatal defect. What aspect is it in these plans that get ignored by world leaders and negotiators?
Robert Spencer: The one-word answer to that is jihad. The imperative in Islam is to wage war against unbelievers and subjugate them under the rule of Islamic law. The old saying goes Islamist dominate, not be dominated, and it is never acceptable in Islamic theology, never under any circumstances to live for non-Muslims to rule over Muslims. There might be a temporary situation in which that happens, but the Muslims are obligated according to Islamic law. Of course, this doesn't mean that every one of them is doing it, but the obligation is still there. Obligated under Islamic law to try to replace the non-Muslim government with a Muslim, government and so the idea of creating a Palestinian state, the famous two-state solution would actually just weaken the state of Israel and create an internationally recognized entity, which of course already exists in the Palestinian Authority, but would strengthen this internationally recognized entity that would essentially be a new base for renewed jihad against Israel and ultimately be working toward its total destruction. It would not end the war. It would not solve any problems. There would be more violence than ever.
Barry Nussbaum: I do want to put you on the spot if you don't have an answer to this, but I'm dying to ask the question, so I'm going to ask it anyway. What is the Robert Spencer peace plan? I mean, obviously, Donald Trump's got a deal of the century that we might hear about in the coming weeks. What's your plan?
Robert Spencer: Well, I do believe there's this talk about annexing part of Judea and Samaria, and I do believe that's necessary for Israel's continued health and survival and I would stop all negotiations and say they're going to be no more peace negotiations and no talk whatsoever of a Palestinian state as long as this genocidal incitement and hatred is being preached as it is being preached on a daily basis and ask the neighboring states, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt to grant citizenship to the Palestinians, which they have not granted all these decades because they want to keep this fake refugee problem alive as a stick to beat the Israelis with and tell them that, you know, here's where I would actually, my plan and Martin Sherman's plan come together that we were discussing in the last segment that we, I would think that if I were president of the United States if I'm elected president, then I would offer actually financial aid to those states to not only grant citizenship to the Palestinians but to take them in. And you say, oh, no, no, no, this is their ancestral homeland they have to be in the West Bank. No, that's the Jews ancestral homeland. That's Judea and Samaria. That's the Jew's ancestral homeland even more than the rest of it that's actually Israel right now and also the idea that people can never move and must never move, and it's a terrible violation of their human rights this also is ridiculous. You know, after World War Two, there were millions of Germans who were uprooted from Poland and from Czechoslovakia and from the part of Poland that is now the Soviet or became the Soviet Union and is now part of Russia. They were uprooted not by choice, but because these states, for quite understandable reasons, didn't want large German populations around anymore and they were moved to Germany and nobody's whining about it and nobody's saying that they're refugees now, until the third and fourth generation. There was also the partition of India with the creation of Pakistan and what is now, Bangladesh and the modern state of India and millions of people were uprooted and moved east or west to go to the state they wanted to live in. Nobody is whining about it now and nobody's claiming to be a refugee now. So the plan that I would have would involve having those states take in these people and stop pressuring the state of Israel about where they're going to be and understand that as Arabs, they have like we said at the very beginning of these segments, they are not culturally, linguistically, religiously different from the states, the people in the states that are taking them in so they'll fit right in. They'll be right at home. They might be about 10 miles away from their supposed ancestral homeland, big deal and then there, there really ought to be a positive, a possibility for peace. Except, of course, for the fact that many in those states will continue with the jihad ideology and will continue to pressure the state of Israel and that will be understood, but this whole Palestinian sham will be ended.
Barry Nussbaum: I find it curious that there is a large number, no one knows exactly what it is, but there have been a lot of surveys supporting it's in mid-double digits of Palestinians who have expressed a desire to be under the auspices of the Israeli government instead of the Palestinian government because they feel at least when they talk to their cousins on the other side of the wall, so to speak, those people are living prosperous, if not wealthy lives compared to their lives. When you drive through the West Bank, and I've done it, in many cases, it's a third world country with sewage running in the streets, with half-naked or naked children running about that literally have been deprived of all human rights, not by the Israelis, but by their own Palestinian government.
Robert Spencer: Yes.
Barry Nussbaum: Seems to me, given a choice between the possibility of success, prosperity, and freedom versus the oppression of their own people over them, maybe, under those circumstances, Robert as you point out, the Quranic instructions to fight the oppressor if he's not Muslim may fall under the priority of well, I'd rather be free, and I'd rather have hope for my kids, for an education and a job and not being shot versus fulfilling the prophecies of the prophet from a thousand years ago.
Robert Spencer: It could happen. I think that the Palestinian entity, as such, the whole Palestinian enterprise, the nationality, the state, the whole fiction of it is a jihadist initiative even though it was hatched in the KGB. It's something that is absolutely based on jihadist principles. Whereas if the whole thing were repudiated as it should be and ended and the people there were taught to understand that they are, they're Arabs and here are all these Arab homelands they can go live in that, you're right. I think a great many people would choose a normal life rather than wanting to continue this insane blood lust.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, maybe that's going to be our next discussion. The Robert plan and how we can get it explained, promoted, and adopted. Unless, of course, the deal of the century turns out to be the deal of the century and since we haven't seen it, we don't know what that's going to be quite yet. Thanks for joining us on ATP Report and a special thanks to Robert Spencer for joining us, again. I urge all of you to go out and find his new book it's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And for all of you that haven't subscribed yet, please text the word truth, T-R-U-T-H to 88202 on your cell phone. It'll subscribe you to our text message service. You'll get our stuff every day. Always free. We never charge for it, or you can type in find Barry.com that will take you to our Web site and American Truth Project, and you can sign up there. Always free. We want you to stay informed. Again for ATP Report, I'm Barry Nussbaum.