Robert Spencer Explains the Impossibility of Israel-Palestinian Peace
Barry Nussbaum: Welcome to ATP Report. I'm Barry Nussbaum. Our very special guest is back. Robert Spencer, the founder and editor of Jihad Watch has a new book out. I urge all of our listeners to go pick it up at either Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble.com or wherever books are sold. It's a scholarly treatise that will explain to you why there is no peace and has been no peace, real peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Robert, welcome back.
Robert Spencer: Great to be back, Barry. Thank you.
Barry Nussbaum: So in our last episode, we were talking about the lines that get drawn on a map and how on one side of the line you've got barren desert and the other side it's a barren desert, except at least in the Golan as an example. As you and I have discussed, the Israelis have brought in water and soil that works and has all kinds of technology. They're growing crops. They're raising their children. They're building schools. It looks like a paradise. And then there's the fence. And on the other side of the fence, it looks like, well, Syria. And you know what Syria looks like because it looks like Iraq and Iran and the rest of the Middle East where civilization has to deal with who has more guns in which village. That's where you want to live, unless it's, well, an ISIS village. It's a profound demonstration in civilization versus non-civilization. And it reminds me of the old adage attributed to the late prime minister of Israel, Golda Meyer, who said, "When the Arabs love their children more than they hate us, there will be peace." Because when you're on that border and when I was last there, I saw the live fire going on between two villages. They weren't loving their children at all. And the Israelis, as a result, at least where we were standing on that day, had to be in a hole, because there were bullets flying over our heads. So, let's start out. Your book talks about the various peace plans. Every single one of them has failed. The primary objective to establish a lasting peace between the Palestinian people, which we put in quotes, as you've explained in a previous episode, was an invented nationality that took Arab tribes and made some of them Palestinians. The rest of them are still Jordanians, Egyptians, Syrians. Lebanese, Iraqis, and so on, and the Israelis who want peace desperately. So, what would you say after the first deal, the Camp David Accords? What were the subsequent deals, and why did they go wrong, Robert? What prevented the lasting peace that was announced with each deal?
Robert Spencer: Well, in the first place, what you have after Camp David is the Oslo Accords where Bill Clinton brought Yitzhak Rabin and Arafat together to shake hands again, as Carter had made Sadat and Begin shake hands. And the Oslo Accords set up the Palestinian Authority that was supposed to become ultimately, and I think many still intend for it to become an independent state, the government of an independent state. And then there was George W. Bush who brought Mahmoud Abbas and Ariel Sharon together to shake hands. And that was the roadmap to peace, which was essentially a continuation of the Oslo Accords. And then Obama brought Netanyahu and Mahmoud Abbas together to shake hands. All of these failed because of the exact same ideology that makes that huge difference between what it's like on the Syrian side and what it's like on the Israeli side. The reason why the Palestinian people, so-called the reason why they hate the Israelis more than they love their children is because they believe that in doing so, they are fulfilling a divine command that a law tells them in the Koran to drive them out from where they drove you out. Now, this is another thing that I discuss in the book that they weren't really driven out. And I have a number of contemporary newspapers and magazines, various journalistic accounts from nineteen forty-eight that say that the Arabs are leaving Palestine because the Arab higher committee has ordered them to do so. But nowadays this is one of the things where history has been rewritten, and nobody knows that anymore. And instead, we're told that the Israelis expelled the Palestinians and stole their land. Nothing of this is true. The Israelis actually wanted the Palestinians to stay and make peace and live side by side with them in a unitary state. But the Palestinians would not accept this, and this is the core of the conflict and the reason why the peace process has never worked. The law says drive them out from where they drove you out. That's the Koran, chapter 2, verse one ninety-one. Now, you understand that's a divine command. That's a command on the order of authority of the Ten Commandments. And so, if you say drive them out from where they drove you out is something the law wants you to do, then you don't then turn around and make peace and live with these people. You might engage in a peace process that enables you to win concessions from them. But not in a peace process that will really bring about actual peace.
Barry Nussbaum: You know, you make such a profound point there when you go back in contemporary history in 48, 49, and 50, I remember reading the articles. The Arab leaders wanted the Arabs in Israel to flee because the armies were going to come in and wipe out the Jews, and then the territory would be divided up between the various Arabs that came back. They fully expected to kill every Jew in Palestine. They were shocked when not only was the new Israeli people successful in defending the land, but at that point, they couldn't come back to reclaim their land. And so, the prediction of they'll all be dead. Pick out the house that you want when you come back to Tel Aviv or Jerusalem or Haifa or wherever they got stuck on the other side of the border, and their third or fourth level of descendants are still sitting there waiting.
Robert Spencer: And they're still refugees, which is sort of ridiculous. And it shows how all this is really just a propaganda sham to start with from start to finish because first, you invent the Palestinians, and then the next invention was Palestinian refugees. Look, my grandparents were refugees from the Ottoman Empire. They were exiled from the Ottoman Empire. They left. My parents were born in the United States. I was born in the United States. Neither my parents nor I are refugees. But I can tell you, Barry, that if my grandparents had been exiled from Palestine and went to the United States and I was born in the United States and my parents were born in the United States, then I would be a refugee and so would my parents under the United Nations working definition of what a refugee is. The only refugee population in the world that passes down refugee status to the children, to the grandchildren, to the great-grandchildren is the Palestinians. And this is so that they can ride the gravy train of international aid and keep on getting billions in refugee relief for people who have not lived in the place, not ever seen the place that they're supposed to be refugees from. It's a massive scam, and nobody seems to care.
Barry Nussbaum: Isn't it amazing that the first person in national government in the United States is our current President Trump, who figured that out and cut off the money to this scam that turned a couple of hundred-thousand people into millions and millions? And in some cases, are the fourth generation of these refugees that have never seen the land in which they consider to be their homeland. Let's switch gears for a second. Now, the current leader of the Palestinian people, Mahmoud Abbas, who goes by the nickname Abu Mazen comes to the United States, periodically, speaks on worldwide platforms on a daily basis, lives in a palace, is a multi-millionaire, maybe a hundred times over, was elected in 2004 for a four year term, I think, and he's still in office, so he's become dictator for life.
Robert Spencer: It's been a long four years, Barry.
Barry Nussbaum: Exactly. He'll be there until they kill him, or he falls over dead. You know, it's about the only way there's going to be a regime change among the Palestinians. What really bothers me on that subject of his leadership is the propaganda arm of the Palestinian Authority seems to convince the world, Robert, that all they want is peace. And yet, one of the largest identifiable categories within the Palestinian Authority budget is the pay for slave program where the Palestinians celebrate people who kill Jews, celebrate people who try to kill Jews, celebrate people who blow up Israeli things, buses, buildings, checkpoints and so on, and then pay them and or their survivors more money than they pay the authorities, real employees that are engineers and doctors and lawyers and administrators. How in the world have they gotten away with this program everywhere? But recently with the White House, when Trump finally said, "Stop it, or I'm cutting off the money." Abbas said he would stop it. He didn't. So, Trump cut the money, but the rest of the world keeps on paying.
Robert Spencer: I think that the one reason why they keep on is because they really do buy this propaganda. I've got a chapter in the book about the Palestinian victimhood industry, the Hollywood, as it's called, the manufacture of Israeli atrocities. I can tell you that at my website, Jihad watch, when I post material about Palestinians attacking Israelis, murdering Israeli civilians and so on, invariably I get responses on Twitter or emails or in the comments field, people telling me about some supposed atrocity of the Israelis and invariably it's fake. It either never happened, or the details are completely changed. For example, I've got several examples in the book of photographs that were widely circulated of children who were supposed to have been killed by the Israelis. And one of them was a family in the United States who had a picture of their baby on Facebook and a journalist, so-called, in Jordan took that picture and said, this is a Palestinian child who was murdered by the Israelis. And I've got many other examples of this kind of thing. I think that to a tremendous degree, world opinion is shaped by media outlets that, for whatever reason, either they're being paid, or they're just completely clueless they accept these stories. And they actually think that the Israelis are committing war crimes against Palestinians. And consequently, the Palestinians need our financial support and support of other kinds.
Barry Nussbaum: Thanks for joining us on ATP Report. A special thanks goes out to Robert Spencer of Jihad Watch and the author of a new book that I urge you to go get on Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble.com. Thanks, Robert. And for all of you viewers out there that want to get our stuff, our videos and our writings on a daily basis on your cell phone text the word TRUTH, T-R-U-T-H to 88202. You'll be signed up for our free text messaging service. It's always free. You won't be charged, and every day you'll get the information right on your cell phone. Or put in, FindBarry.com, and you'll go to our website where you can sign up to look at it the old-fashioned way, on the web. For ATP Report, I'm Barry Nussbaum.