Danny Ayalon: Israeli Ambassador Insights on Trump and Israel!
Barry Nussbaum: Welcome to ATP Radio. I'm your host, Barry Nussbaum. Before we get into it with our incredibly special honored guests today, I want to remind listeners to take out your cell phones. If you have not already subscribed to our free alert system at ATP. We send out all of our shows and content absolutely free. All you have to do is text the word TRUTH, T-R-U-T-H and send it to 88202. You will be automatically subscribed to our free text message alert system. You'll get all of our content like today, and all our other shows absolutely free on your cell phone, but it only works within the United States. For those of you listening in Europe, Israel, the Middle East, etc., sorry, it's not worldwide yet. For those people, go to our website, Americantruthproject.org, and you can sign up there for free. So that being said, I am thrilled to introduce our very special guest today live from Israel. Danny Ayalon is joining us. For those of you who are not familiar with him and his relationship with the American Truth Project, Danny has served Israel overseas as part of the ambassadorial staff at the United Nations and in the country of Panama. He was the United States Representative from the State of Israel and served as the Israeli Ambassador to the United States. He's been, Deputy Foreign Minister. He's close with the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, and he is a good friend of the Nussbaum family. So welcome, Ambassador Danny Ayalon.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, Barry, thank you so much. It's a real honor and pleasure to be back with you. I really look forward to meeting up again, Corona, permitted. I hope it will be soon. I also want to second everything you have said, and I hope everyone will join your ATP network. I think not only is it insightful, but it is also speaking the truth, promoting freedom, and the values that we all share in the Judeo-Christian world, and in the Western world. We need Barry, more people like you. We need more ATP's that you have so generously established and financed.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, that's very kind, and I appreciate your nice words. Let's jump into it. As you know, unlike Israel, which never has an election, we are going through our own craziness right now, as we say in Yiddish, Meshuggeneh. We are just a few weeks away from deciding who the next President of the United States will be. We know Donald Trump's policies because we've seen them for nearly four years. Let's talk about former Vice President Joe Biden. In a minute, we will talk about your relationship with him personally. He recently said that if he is elected President, he will reopen the Palestine Liberation Organization's diplomatic mission in Washington, D.C.; Trump closed it. And that he will restore funding to the Palestinian Authority. He said that he would open the U.S. Consulate in East Jerusalem. This will serve the Palestinians, and here is his quote, "A priority now for the cause of Israeli-Palestinian peace should be resuming our dialog with the Palestinians and pressing Israel not to take actions that make a two-state solution impossible." He went on to say, quote, "I will reopen the U.S. Consulate in East Jerusalem. I will find a way to reopen the PLO's diplomatic mission in Washington. I will resume the decades-long economic and security assistance efforts to the Palestinians that the Trump administration stopped. So, as everybody knows, Trump cut off virtually all U.S. assistance to the Palestinian Authority due to their Pay for Slay program, where they, literally, pay terrorists to kill Israelis. To bomb, murder, stab, sabotage, et cetera. What do you think, Ambassador, of Joe Biden's plans for Israel and the Palestinians?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: I think that would be a major mistake. That it would be a grave setback for the entire, I would say, peace potential and certainly for stability and security in the Middle East and much beyond. I'm afraid this will undo all these achievements, and they were major ones, and we can, of course, describe why they were so important. But it will undo the entirely new architecture of the Middle East achieved in the last four years. That will take us back, not just four years. It will take us back a hundred years, back with all the terror and the violence and the bloodshed. This will further peace away because if there is any chance for peace, it is only through direct negotiations between the Palestinians and us. Without preconditions, without vilifying the other side, as the Palestinians do, without calling on the entire international community to put pressure on Israel so they will not need to step up to the table and make any compromises. This will again put Israel back in a corner. Which means we will not compromise. We will have to just defend ourselves. This would hurt very much, not just Israeli interests but also America's interests because it will put Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah back in, I would say, a leadership position. It would put all of America's allies here, Israel, Gulf Countries, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, put them under immense pressure. That would bring back Russia to a much more influential role. That will really hurt first strategically, from a military point of view, economically and in leadership. I also think that would put the United States back into a position of a, may I dare say, paper tiger, and that does not command any respect from foes or friends alike. That could be detrimental not just to the United States leadership, but to the United States interests.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, for those people that don't know. Obviously, you and I know quite well what does Pay for Slay mean?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Okay, for that, you need to go to the Codex, to the books, to the legislation records of what is called the P.A., the Palestinian Authority. They have a legislative body which is called the Palestinian Parliament, and they are the ones, since the Oslo Agreements, they have more than autonomy. This is what people do not understand, even that they control their own lives. Forty percent of the West Bank is Palestinian, one hundred percent of Gaza's Palestinian, but this is another issue that we can discuss later. But in any case, since 1994, where the Palestinians had full control of 40 percent of the West Bank, they have the Palestinian Authority, which is like a government, and they are the ones who finance the terrorism. They are the ones who are very intransigent, not wanting to negotiate with Israel in good faith. They are the ones who are committing what's called, and rightly so, the political war against Israel. BDS, calling for sanctions against Israel worldwide and especially in the United States, to render Israel a pariah country so it will be isolated and then would be weakened. Then the Palestinians can do whatever they want without giving an inch. The legislative body to the Palestinian Parliament has, probably about ten years ago give, or take, legislated where every Palestinian who kills Israelis is to be rewarded. If that Palestinian terrorist is killed during his terror act, his family will be rewarded for life. Now, this is not even the half of it because there is also a tariff. All we have to do is just read the law, which says that the more Israelis you murder, the more money you get. Now, if this is not an incentive, a call for murder, a call for, I would almost want to say, genocide because they target Jews. They do not allow Jews to live in their areas. They are performing ethnic cleansing, as they did in Bethlehem to all the Christians of Bethlehem. You know that until 1994, when Israel gave Bethlehem to the Palestinians, 70 percent of all Bethlehem residents were Christians. Today, there is only nine percent. So, this Pay to Slay is something which is not just a war crime. It is crimes against humanity. This is why I cannot fathom refinancing, the American refinancing of the Palestinian Authority because a big chunk of this money is given to terrorists to encourage them to murder more.
Barry Nussbaum: So, this isn't a secret, Danny. In other words, you haven't done some sort of undercover secret agent work to discern this. It's out in the open.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Absolutely.
Barry Nussbaum: In fact, on a number of occasions, President Trump, in the early years of his administration, had Mahmoud Abbas face to face and told him, cut it out, or we're going to cut you off. From what I understand, Abbas said to Trump's face, "It will end, it's over." He went back to Ramallah, where his seat of government is on the West Bank, and promptly disregarded everything he said and said it would remain part of the Palestinian Authority's policies, correct?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Absolutely, absolutely.
Barry Nussbaum: So how does the rest of the world and more importantly for us here in America tolerate a former U.S. Senator, a former Vice President of the United States, and quite possibly the next President of the United States having the audacity to say, "I'm going to start giving them money again, and I know they spend a considerable portion of their budget encouraging and rewarding murderers, but, I'm going to give them money anyway to kill Jews."
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, the facts are known. They are indisputable. The problem is that half of the world turns a blind eye. They just look away. It's starting with the Europeans. Of course, I'm not talking about Muslim countries, but the Europeans and others, I would say, many other political circles in the United States. I can only surmise that it cannot be ignorance. It cannot be naiveté because it's well known. So, would it be a weakness? Would it be just a matter of hypocrisy because all these Pay to Slay Palestinians accuse Israel of committing war crimes, which is so far from the truth. Those who would support Pay to Slay basically, at the end of the day, would also support terror acts against American G.I.'s, whether it's in Iraq or Afghanistan or anywhere else. You see, Barry, I would say there is a divide today pretty much in the international community. There are those Western countries that believe in cherishing life, hope for the future, and building for their children and grandchildren. There are those who want to sow chaos, who want to take over the case of radical Islam. They want to Islamicize the world and live by their own Sharia laws. They understand at this point that militarily they are not strong enough to take us over, not the United States and not Israel. So, what do they do? They try to weaken us through international organizations, whether it's the UN, whether it's UNESCO, the UN Cultural Organization, or the Science Organization, which decree's that the Temple Mount is Muslim. Most of the Christian countries in Europe voted for that against their own heritage. It's just a pity, I would say.
Barry Nussbaum: It that sounds to me, I've been on the Temple Mount, I'm sure you have as well, that it is the holiest place for Jews. It is a holy place for Christians because when the Temple was there, and the Ark of the Covenant was there, in early Christian days, it's where Jesus was and went. Long, long, long, long before Islam never existed. And yet, I for the life of me, I've always been upset about this. In 1967, when Israel liberated East Jerusalem, the Temple, and the Old City from Jordanian illegal control, they gave up control of the Temple Mount. The Jordanian Watch, which is the religious body that makes up the rules, to me as an American, seems ridiculous and prejudiced against Jews and Christians. Do you disagree?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Not at all. That was a major mistake at that time. Moshe Dayan, the Minister of Defense, said, “He didn't want to create another Vatican in Jerusalem. That means having Christian pilgrimage and Jewish pilgrimage in Jerusalem like the Catholics go to Rome. He also said that putting Israel's flag on the Temple Mount would rile up the entire Islamic world, which was not the case. We were always warned that if we moved the embassy, the American embassy to Jerusalem, the entire Islamic world would explode. Nothing of the kind happened. If the U.S. recognizes Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, the entire Arab world will explode. Nothing at all happened.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, let's talk about that. That's an interesting point, and it's a perfect segue way into my next comment. Saudi Arabia is the biggest landmass and influence in the Sunni Muslim world. The most influential by far, and I put this in air quotes, an "ally," of the United States. Quite frankly, when Saudi Arabia says something in the Arab world, it is followed, if not verbatim, at least it sets policy. As I've reported on for years, there has been a back-channel of cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Israel, especially sharing intelligence, understanding the threat of radical Islam coming out of Iran, and spreading their Shiite sponsored terror. In the case of Saudi Arabia, the old adage, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Meaning there is this strange relationship behind the scenes between Israel and Saudi Arabia. Recently Saudi Arabia has basically come out and said, "We are fed up with the Palestinians too." Prince Bandar has been criticizing the Palestinians to an unprecedented degree lately, and he says the Saudis are fed up with all the billions they've given the Palestinians. There's a political analyst in Saudi Arabia who said, I believe it was a couple of days ago, "Palestinian leaders stole the aid sent to the Palestinian people. They built mansions in Washington, Paris, and London while ignoring the suffering of their own people." There's another Saudi political analyst who said, "We must be reminded that the hundreds of billions of dollars their leaders received to support their cause from Saudi Arabia throughout its history were capable of building the Palestinians huge cities. Instead, the Palestinian leaders used the money to buy private planes and luxurious buildings in Europe and the United States." Wow, things have changed.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Oh, a watershed, absolutely nothing less than a watershed. First of all, we must remember that Saudi Arabia is the leader of the Arab world and probably of the Islamic world by virtue of being the custodian over two of Iran's holiest places, which are on Saudi territory, Mecca, and Medina. These are the real holy places of Islam, not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is maybe number three. If you add to the political list, political power, money talks and Saudi Arabia is the richest Arab country, the richest Muslim country. So, all other countries heed to what they say. Prince Bandar, the Head of Intelligence of Saudi Arabia, and an Ambassador of Saudi Arabia to the United States, knows a thing or two about the international community, about the region and the Palestinians. He said what you have accurately quoted about the Palestinians. Actually, I think to say it politely; they mismanaged their donations.
Barry Nussbaum: Excuse me, I think the word in English is stole.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Stole, I would say embezzle. Yes, absolutely. But not just that he said it, and it's on record that the Palestinian leadership, and he was quite careful to distinguish between Palestinians and Palestinian people and their Leadership, he said that the Leadership betrayed their national interest consistently for about one hundred and twenty years. One hundred and twenty years ago, there weren't any people called the Palestinians. We were all Palestinian. It was just an administrative unit run by a mandate given to the United Kingdom by the League of Nations. We won't go into that unless you really want to get some history facts here. But in any case, he said, Bandar, a very influential person and you can bet your life, Barry, that if he said it, he would not have dared to say it without the Saudi government's authorization and support.
Barry Nussbaum: So, our listeners understand in these countries, for all intents and purposes, there is no free press. If you say something reflective of what you believe policy should be, it is not in line with the government's official propaganda ministry not only will your platform, quite honestly, be taken out from under you, so will your freedom, and it could be even worse than that.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Right.
Barry Nussbaum: Let's be clear, the point you just made reflects a policy change of unbelievable proportion in Saudi Arabia, which is a harbinger of new policy changes to come out of the smaller, less powerful, less rich Sunni states in the Middle East.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Yes.
Barry Nussbaum: So, I agree. This is huge news.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Yeah.
Barry Nussbaum: Do you anticipate Saudi recognition of Israel in a treaty?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Yes. We will go back again to your first question. Everybody in the Middle East, in the world, actually is looking up to November 3rd to see who will occupy the White House. I would say that if Trump gets four more years, I see the Saudis in a heartbeat coming out into the open and normalizing relations with Israel and signing a peace treaty, according to the Abrahamic Accords. Prince Bandar is not the only supporter, the entire government of his alliance with Israel, out of their own interests with the Saudis and against the Sunni radical terrorists whether it is ISIS or Al Qaida, the radical Shiite's or the terrorists of Iran, he sees the Palestinians as the troublemakers in the region and for the entire Arab world. Do you know what he said in this article that you mentioned? He said that the Palestinian Leadership was always on the wrong side of history. He said in 1991 where the entire Arab world was coming to the defense of Kuwait against Saddam Hussein who invaded occupied Kuwait and was going after Saudi Arabia in all the Gulf waterways. I mean, the oil waterways, he said when Saddam was beating up on Arabs, the Palestinians went up to the roofs to dance and to throw candies.
Barry Nussbaum: I remember.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: I mean, yes, and then he went back all the way to 1939, where the Mufti, Haj Amin al-Husseini went to see Hitler in Munich to basically support the Nazis. So here we drew a straight line, a historical line from 1939, the Nazis to Saddam Hussein, where the Palestinians were on the wrong side of history. I can also add that during the Cold War, the Palestinians were the tyrannic, evil empire of the defunct Soviet Union. So, there is a major shift here that came out of necessity, basically because of the threats to Saudis and the oldest Sunni countries from Iran, from radical terror. There is another thing here, Barry, which is maybe a little bit overlooked. Oil probably is going to outgrow its usefulness. It could be fifteen years. It could be twenty-five years. All the Arab countries, the Gulf Countries understand it and know they need to prepare for the future. They need to build an industrial base. Not only that, they need to meet the challenges of the future, which are very acute here in the desert climates of most of the Middle East in terms of food security, in terms of water availability, in terms of affordable clean energy. For that, they also need Israel's high-tech in food security, water developments, and many other things that can keep up sustainable development. This is where, again, the Palestinians are on the wrong side of history, instead of really collaborating and moving into this camp of peace that just got a major, major boost with peace with Bahrain, the Emirates, the backing of Saudi Arabia, and also joining the older peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt. We need a Middle East, which takes care of its people and, again, the Palestinians, side with the Iranians and the terrorists.
Barry Nussbaum: Let's talk about a United States leadership rating presently and possibly in two weeks. To begin with, how would you rate the US Israel relationship now under President Trump?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: On a scale of 0 to 10 or 1 to 10, I would say nine. Nine, because 10 is only for God to achieve. It is better than it has ever been, and it's not just the support of Israel. These are Iran and the terrorists, Hezbollah, or Hamas, and it's also vis a vis the BDS. When the United States has Israel's back and defends Israel in the United Nations against all kinds of ludicrous condemnations, then it really goes a long way. All the other BDSr's go back to their holes. In the United States, and I'm afraid to say under Obama, political warfare was fair game when they looked at Israel. The situation was terrible.
Barry Nussbaum: Let's talk about that. I know you've spent time with President Obama, and I know you spent time with Joe Biden. If it's a nine now, meaning it would be a 10, but God is not at the table, so this is as good as it gets with men. What would be your number under Obama?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, I would say under Obama, it was probably a four. Why am I saying a four is because the defense cooperation was very good. But why was it very good? It was because it was also very important for the United States to enjoy the defense cooperation with Israel. This defense cooperation goes both ways in terms of Israeli technology, cyber and missile defense, counterterrorism methods, and tactical and operational experience that saved many American lives. But when it came to the political arena, we were thrown under the bus, and this is why nothing was achieved. The Palestinians were actually pushing forward. They did not compromise at all because they believed that Obama would bring Israel to them on a silver platter. So, this is actually hindered peace, and the pressure on Israel was tremendous. When America pressures Israel, just think what the cue is for all other countries, starting with the Europeans. Pressuring Israel. During the last almost four years of Trump, you didn't hear many condemnations from Europe against Israel because they all understand that the U.S. has Israel's back. So, why is it so important? Because, again, when Obama said that there should be daylight between Israel and the United States, it turned the entire Middle East upside down. The deterrence was lost, terror was increasing, and the worst thing that happened was that Iran got stronger, and the Sunni governments got weaker. This meant that the entire Arab world was on the brink of collapse. When in 2011, there were demonstrators against the dictatorship of Hosni Mubarak, and Mubarak was an ally of the United States. Unfortunately, in the Middle East, the choice is not between a Jeffersonian democracy or a, let's say, a military government. The choice is between stability and terror. Mubarak meant stability. When the demonstrators came out to the squares in Cairo, and throughout Egypt, President Obama and his administration said, "Mubarak has to go." Two years before that, in May 2009, the Green Revolution, when millions of Iranians came out against the dictatorship of the ayatollahs in Iran and all these demonstrators, mostly students and the younger generation, were actually begging for American support, even just moral support and what was the word from Washington?
Barry Nussbaum: Violence.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: This is an internal issue of the Iranians.
Barry Nussbaum: They were slaughtered in the streets, and we did nothing.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Yes, and not one word of condemnation against this dictatorial, murderous regime. So, what was there and following that, what was the result basically, that Iran was much bolder in supporting Hezbollah, in terror over on European and Latin American land. If you recall, Iranian backed terrorists were doing whatever they wanted in Germany and Brussels, murdering opponents of the regime and others. So then I would say that the United States' traditional, long-standing allies in the region saw that they were being thrown under the bus and that the United States is switching alliances, preferring the Shiites of Iran over the Sunnis of Saudi Arabia and the Sunni countries.
Barry Nussbaum: Alright, so shine up your crystal ball. Look forward a few weeks. Let's say the next President of the United States is a guy named Joe Biden, who you know personally. What will the future hold for Israel with a Joe Biden, Kamala Harris White House?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, of course, I don't have a crystal ball, but I can tell you that I have met Joe Biden many times. He's very affable. I like him very much on a personal basis. He's a friend. He always told me that he was the only Senator alive who had met all Israel's prime ministers since Golda Meir until now, which is true. First elected to the Senate in 1972, Golda Meir was still the Prime Minister, and he has met them all. If you look at his voting record in the Senate, it's impeccable. However, if he says now that we will go back to this very, very bad, dangerous Iran deal, that's, again, going to upset the entire Middle East. It's going to be a grave danger for Israel, for all the U.S. allies, and subsequently the United States itself. When President Obama lifted off the sanctions, he sent over 100 billion dollars of money and unfroze the ayatollahs' assets. Not only that, but they also demanded, for some reason, you can just imagine for what, one and a half-billion dollars in cash, and that was given to them. That meant that the ayatollahs are free to do whatever they want.
Barry Nussbaum: So, what is Biden going to do? Is Biden going to be good for Israel or bad for Israel?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: I can only judge him by his words. If he's going to go back to the Iranian deal, that's going to be very bad. Again, I say not just for Israel, I imagine for the entire Middle East. Not only that, the Palestinians, which are also waiting to see what will happen in Washington after the elections. hey will go back. If there's ever any chance for them to have to come up to any kind of a compromise, they will never want to do it. They will think, okay, we can sit back and relax the Americans will pressure Israel.
Barry Nussbaum: Not good news, but I think you're right. So, in a brief summary, tell our listeners what happened with the UAE peace deal that also included Bahrain.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: I think this is an amazing achievement. I think the kudos are for Trump and his administration by actually looking with a fresh, I would say, view of the Middle East and saying, five successive American Presidents tried the same thing over and over again and just kept hitting a brick wall. That was the paradigm of those American Presidents, like the international community, is that first and foremost, we have to have peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Then the entire Arab world will come, and then there would be peace in the Middle East. That the crux is, the Middle East's real problem is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and this is not the case. Come, Trump, he said, "No, the problem is not the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The core problem is the deficiency of democracy, the terror by Iran and ISIS which are rampant, and nobody's stopping them, and there's no future for younger generations. To help the Middle East, we have to, first and foremost, establish normalization and peace between Israel and the Arab countries, not to keep the entire region hostage by the Palestinians." And it's worked.
Barry Nussbaum: So, we have a peace treaty between Israel, Bahrain, and the United Arab Emirates that was pushed through under the sponsorship, urging, and support of President Trump. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. He, absolutely, in my opinion, should have gotten the award for what he did. I'm not surprised he didn't, knowing the Nobel committee. That's the same group that gave the Peace Prize to Barack Obama before he ever did anything in the world, and it basically cheapens the prize to virtually meaningless. I wouldn't say the same about medicine, physics, or literature, but it's almost nonsensical at this point in terms of the Peace Prize. What's going to happen between Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates, and Israel now? What is already happening in Israel where you are?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: First of all, there is great enthusiasm. Already I can tell you, I received so many calls from the Emirates for collaboration, economic, cultural, tourism, any cooperation. They would love to come after COVID, of course. They invite us, I would say, as brothers, to visit with them. The enthusiasm is shared not just by Israelis but by all the Gulf Countries, which is amazing. Once they see and understand that Israel is not the problem in the Middle East, Israel is the solution. Once they understand that and they embrace Israel, the relationship will continue to grow very strong.
Barry Nussbaum: Today I saw a cargo ship just arrived in Israel, the first one in Israeli history from Bahrain. Flights are going back and forth now. Airspaces are being opened up for Israeli flights to cross Saudi Arabia, and that's extraordinary. There are rumors about a good half a dozen countries following along behind these two. I never thought I would see the day, and yet it's happening. It's extraordinary times among Israelis, do they get how significant this is?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Oh, I think so. Absolutely, but of course, in this age of political polarity, I would say the Left in Israel, they are giving Netanyahu the kudos, but very, very begrudgingly. But all Israelis understand that this is a major, major development, which tremendously helps Israel's position in the world and certainly in the Middle East.
Barry Nussbaum: I've got to tell you from an American perspective, it got covered here for a few days. Then everything became COVID, and we hate Trump on all major media outlets here, except for a few that tend to be conservative. So, let's talk about Iran. You mentioned it earlier. I'm completely stunned that since President Trump pulled us out of the Iran nuclear deal, which, the rest of the world still thought it was like the greatest thing ever. Since then, Iran has been breaching the agreement daily by supporting terror internally, supporting terror all over the Middle East, building missiles like crazy, enhanced uranium, adding centrifuges, threatening to have a bomb ready in 15 minutes, and bragging about their ability to destroy half the world. And yet, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris make no secret of the fact they can't wait to go back into the deal. What would it mean for Iran if the United States signs up again?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, it means that they will have much more funds to support and initiate terrorism worldwide. Hezbollah's wings are clipped because Iran had to cut back half the aid to Hezbollah from one point two billion dollars a year to six hundred million dollars. That is a huge sum in itself but just think about doubling it. It will help Hamas again, doubling it. It will help Venezuela, Maduro. It will also help the militias, the Shiite militias in Iraq to fight against American troops. It will, of course, help the Shiite militias in Syria to take over also. They will have enough funds to improve their ballistic missiles to reach the entire Middle East and reach the eastern shores of the United States. They are talking about it. They have on the drawing board what they call ICBMs, Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles that can reach ten thousand kilometers. Let alone keep and have a state-of-the-art infrastructure to create and detonate a nuclear device. They may not do it during the time of the agreement, which, anyway, the time of the agreement only has five more years. In five more years, they can just walk freely out of this agreement, and then they can break through to the bomb in a matter of months. I'm afraid all these last four years of great achievements of putting Iran at bay and all the terror organizations that are being nourished by them. All these achievements would just go down the drain.
Barry Nussbaum: Wow, so, Danny, we have some questions coming in from listeners. I'm going to go to the first one, which is a terrific question. Islamic law allows for lying to and misleading non-Muslims. The Doctrine of Taqiyya and Mohammed talk about you can make a treaty with the Nonbelievers. You are allowed to break the treaty because it's not really something you're bound by because you might not be strong enough to conquer them, so you make a treaty, and then when you are strong, the line or the taqiyya ends. This Doctrine of Hudna, a cessation of violence, is replaced by war or an attack when you feel strong enough to conquer the Nonbeliever. That is Islamic doctrine, and as we know, it is non-changeable, non-negotiable, and is in cement, so to speak. With that understanding, how is it that Israel can make a treaty with a devout nation where Islam is the country's religion? It's the state religion of the country, and the country runs along traditional Islamic religious lines. How does Israel make a treaty with a country like that and expect/anticipate that the country will observe it in perpetuity?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, only through deterrence and only through a built-in mechanism, a treaty that will protect Israel and keep its military edge over any Muslim country or a coalition of Muslim countries. With Egypt, we have peace, but this is with a non-religious regime of Sadat, Mubarak, and now Sisi. Thank goodness that Morsi, the Islamic Brotherhood President, is not in power and the same thing with King Hussein, with the Palestinians. Arafat was on record in South Africa in 1994 when he bragged that the agreement with Israel is going to be just like the agreement between the Prophet Muhammad and the Quraysh Tribe. The Quraysh Tribe, back in 630 A.D., was the only tribe that Muhammad could not conquer. By the way, they were of Jewish origin. So, what did he do? He signed a peace treaty with them. They were very happy. Two years later, when they put down their arms, they were not worried about it. So, let's say in a very guerrilla way he attacked them overnight, killed them all. Arafat told them he was going to sign with Israel's Quraysh Tribe, so of course, we cannot trust them whatsoever. This is why one of the major, major tenants of any agreement with the Palestinians is that they will be demilitarized. No way they can have an army.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, I get that with the Palestinians. It's interesting that you mention the Quraysh Tribe because that was part of the question, which I didn't detail, but the questioner, I think, is curious. Not so much about the Palestinians who, literally, sit on borders and roads that run in and out of all these territories. You and I have been all over that area, obviously you, thousands of times versus me on my many trips to Israel. But the truth is that when you've got foreign countries in this case, very, very, wealthy countries, that while they don't have armies, air forces or missiles to threaten Israel, they can fund almost unlimited interference in Israel or terror. So, are you saying that Israel, for all intents and purposes, recognizes the story of the Quraysh Tribe and what happened to them? They were all slaughtered because they believed the treaty. So that Israel doesn't lay down arms and always remains strong, you have one eye on them with a smile, and then the other eye is sort of watching your own army stay strong. Is that the context?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Yes, absolutely. Not just military might, but also very strong intelligence so you can follow, the money and finance, and if it goes to any terrorist organizations, you can call it out. But, basically, create a relationship that will benefit those Arab countries, and some of those Arab countries, I would say, are Islamists by name only. If you look at the Emirates or Bahrain, or Oman, yes, they are Islamic countries. They have all the trappings of Islam, but most of the people are not fanatic. You see it when they go abroad, they drink wine, they go to discotheques, and they really like Western life. It's not like the regime in Iran, the ayatollahs, which are very, very fanatic. The people of Iran do not like them. They would have loved to have Western-style lives. They used to have Western-style lives in the past under the Shah, but Iran is a dangerous one. Erdogan, in Turkey, is a dangerous one because he is a radical Islamist to the core, but this is not the case with the Governments of the Gulf Countries and it's not the case with Jordan.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, that's good to know. A second question has come in that is similar to the first but with a little bit of a different slant. The Koran says, "Oh, you who have believed do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are, in fact, allies of one another." This was another story, "That you cannot trust the Jews who are called by the Koran the worst of creatures." Under that understanding, and there are dozens of these quotes, Jews and Christians are looked at somewhere as apes and pigs, and you know all those real colorful slogans. Israel is literally ignoring that and pretending that this doctrine doesn't exist. The question is, how is that possible?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, let me add one more verse in the Koran, which, you know, it's even worse because it's calling for killing the infidels, Jews, and Christians. When they would run away from the mighty Islamists and hide behind trees or behind walls, the Islamists would ferret them out and just behead them and kill them. I know, it's terrible. This is why we have to go back to the basics of our peace with strength. Peace with strength and try to, I would say, isolate religion from politics, especially when it comes to international treaties.
Barry Nussbaum: If I were to argue, there's a peace treaty, which is a warm peace, and there's a peace treaty, which is a cold peace. I would say that the peace treaty with Jordan is a cold peace. They're still harboring terrorists, hijackers, and murderers that ought to be extradited but aren't. Egypt is probably a little better, and maybe that's because those two countries have borders with Israel. There have been a number of wars, and many, many Egyptians, Jordanians, and Israelis have all died. Israel seems to want a warm peace, and those countries seem to be afraid of their own populations rising up. As we know, a sizable population in Jordan considers themselves Palestinian Arabs rather than Jordanian Arabs, right. So, it's a little bit different, and maybe the argument is that, well, Bahrain and UAE and possibly other countries that may follow behind have never had a war with Israel. They don't have cemeteries filled with war veterans that died fighting Israel. Is that maybe the difference?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Yes, to a very, large extent, but there is another thing to get from this when you look at Egypt and Jordan. They are very, very strong in the sales of the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood they are in, for instance, in Jordan, have infiltrated and now command the unions, the labor unions in the Parliament. This is why King Abdullah and before him, King Hussein, had to be walking on eggshells to be very, very careful not to incite. Of course, they were always against the peace treaty. So, this is why Israel is giving them kind of a blank check when they condemn Israel publicly. But of course, under the radar, there is tremendous cooperation in counterterrorism, defense, and many other things. The same thing with Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood is very strong in Egypt. They are not in Bahrain or the Emirates, and that makes a big difference.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, let's end it with this. I've heard a number of U.S. political leaders and most prominently your old friend, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris, advocating for the two-state solution still. To the point of imposing an American viewpoint on how peace should look for Israel in Israel and largely ignored, I should say, what Donald Trump has accomplished in his first several years in office. Is there a two-state solution out there where there is a Palestinian state? I assume, from the Israeli perspective, called Judea and Samaria, the West Bank and Israel in some sort of modified borders. In your mind, does that still exist as some sort of solution?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, to look at it from, let's say, natural resources, demography, the area, the space between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean is just too small for two states. So, it's like, from the start, that it will explode at some point, whether demographically or economically. If you're realistic, the two-state solution already exists in Gaza; 100 percent of Gaza is under Palestinian control. Hamas took over this because of the infighting among the Palestinians, between the Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. They already have, I would say, the trappings of a state in Gaza. But also, as we mentioned at the outset here Barry, 40 percent of Judea and Samaria are under the Palestinian Authority's total control. So, this, I would say, is the solution. Later on, if relations become so peaceful, like in Europe, then it can be a kind of confederation between Jordan, the Palestinians, and Israel, but certainly not a Palestinian state, which will occupy in its entirety Judea and Samaria. That is not going to happen. That is a real recipe for disaster.
Barry Nussbaum: I remember a few years ago when I interviewed you in your living room in Israel with your lovely wife and your Chief Assistant. My daughter was there. It was really wonderful.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Sure.
Barry Nussbaum: You talked to them about the Ambassador Ayalon Peace Plan that you had come up with, and since then, Trump has pulled off these miracles. I consider them miracles in his relationship and policy with the United States and Israel and his sponsorship of the Bahrain-UAE Peace Deal, the Abrahamic Accords. We have moved our embassy to Jerusalem. We recognize the Golan Heights as Israeli territory. There's not a millimeter of space between Israel and the United States now. As you put it, we went from a four to a nine, which is as good as it gets. With all that has happened, what does the Danny Ayalon Peace Proposal look like now?
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: Well, I would say again that, first of all, we have to understand that it has to be true peace, not a piece of paper. True peace means a historical reconciliation, a belief in peaceful coexistence, and mutual recognition. If this is the case, then the sky is the limit. It is not so much about the territory as it is about the relationship. If we see a Palestinian people led by peace-loving individuals, then a confederation is certainly a possibility. The economic benefits and joint ventures that can spring out will give the entire region a great hope for the future.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, on that note, let's leave it there, and we'll pick this up again after November 3rd. To discuss, oh my God, what do we do now or isn't this great now there is going to be another ten countries making peace with Israel. Then we can follow up, obviously, with an understanding of how things look with Iran and the rest of the Middle East, starting with Saudi Arabia. So special, thanks to you, Danny, for coming on today. I think our viewers really appreciate the insight of someone close to the Leadership in Israel. Who has served this country as an Ambassador here in the United States in a number of different roles and is still very prominent on the international scene. I watch you on television all the time. So, it's great to have you here. Thank you so much.
Ambassador Danny Ayalon: It's always a pleasure, and any time you call, I'll be there.
Barry Nussbaum: All right. We really appreciate you. I want to remind all of our listeners to subscribe to our text message alert system if you haven't done so already. Please text the word TRUTH and send it to 88202. You'll get a confirmation in about three seconds that you've been subscribed. It's always free. You'll get all of our stuff for free on your cell phone. If you're out of the United States and listening in Europe or elsewhere, you can go to our website, Americantruthproject.org, sign up there. We never charge for content. It's always free. So that being said, for ATP Radio, thanks for joining us today.