Barry Nussbaum: Hello and welcome to American Truth Project. I am Barry Nussbaum, with a very special guest. I’m thrilled to be able to announce we have Dinesh D’Souza today. He’s an author. He’s a filmmaker, is a provocateur.

We’re going to talk about the themes from his best-selling book, The United States of Socialism, and the movie that came from it based on those theories and principles. Trump card, which, Dinesh, I’ve got to tell you, is one of the most brilliant analysis I have ever watched. I wish it were on college campuses from coast to coast.

Dinesh D’Souza: I appreciate it. I try very hard to make these movies educational and highly entertaining, inspiring, moving, so I hope it met those standards.

Barry Nussbaum: I got news for it’s got my stamp of approval all over it. I would pay to have it distributed. It’s so important, especially considering how dumbed-down most universities are now when it comes to understanding the principles of what made America great.

Dinesh D’Souza: Yeah, I think not only is the affirmation of American principles important, the sort of architecture of our system, what makes it unique. Why is there so much social mobility in America? How is it the case that someone like me could come to this country as an immigrant with 500 dollars in my pocket and realize the American dream?

Not just of bettering your life but being the architect of your own life. Then, of course, the dismaying rise of socialism. I think the most discredited idea perhaps in slavery. So how such an idea that’s been tried more than 25 times, failed everywhere, could possibly make a comeback here in America and come into the political mainstream this is sort of the mystery that the film seeks to unravel.

Barry Nussbaum: I got news for you. You raised so many questions that are so brilliant in their simplicity you would think after watching, at least this is what’s ringing in my head because I watched it again today before we came on the air, there are no answers to justify other than evil. So, let’s get started with Trump Card.

The press is full of calling anybody that thinks there might have been a fraudulent election basically coo-coo. That there was no fraud, that the charges are insane, the media won’t even cover it. What do you think is the backbone of the massive denial for even reporting that there could be voter irregularities?

Dinesh D’Souza: Well, I would say that basically, we have lost the concept of a real independent media in this country because in the past we had a media that might be inclined to the Left, but it nevertheless was driven by at least an ideal of fairness or impartiality, and that is now seemingly gone.

Institutions like The New York Times at least would pretend to or sort of try to hold themselves to a standard of being fair, looking at both sides, evaluating evidence. So, right now you have a media that seems to be like working with paid operatives for the other side, and you could no more convince them than the Coca-Cola company could convince people who work for Pepsi that they’ve got a better drink on their hands.

So, what happens now is that they say, “Well, where is the evidence of fraud?” If you say, “Well, here are three hundred affidavits. Here are 500 hundred dead people who voted. Here’s how voting machines can be manipulated. Here are how the election laws are flagrantly violated.” They act as if, well, where is the evidence?

We just told you unless all these people are lying. You notice that there’s a chilling similarity in what people testify to in all these swing states. If you listen to the hearings in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Arizona, it looks like it’s the same shenanigans. So that suggests to me that there is some coordination. Almost as if you have a rash of bank robberies in 12 different states, they all operate in the same way, using the same sort of modus operandi.

You think, well, there’s some criminal syndicate that is putting this together. It’s just not independent people trying to pull off heists in 12 different places. So, I think something very big is going on here, and the only question to me is whether this can be cracked and cracked in time.

Barry Nussbaum: Well, before we get to that, it would seem to me, and I’ve watched probably as many hours as you have, Dinesh, and you’re right, it almost seems like Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Nevada, it is the same script in a different place.

Maybe different numbers, but it’s the same bad stuff. Why then are the Democrats themselves, if they truly believe there was no fraud, why are they so committed to preventing any kind of hearings? Do they just want to get on with it because they want Biden as President and Trump out no matter what? The truth no longer matters.

Dinesh D’Souza: There was a very interesting tidbit just today or yesterday from Rasmussen polls showing that 30 percent of Democrats believe that there is fraud, significant fraud, and fraud in favor of the Democrats against Trump. Part of this, to me, is a revelation of how little the media seems to matter anymore.

Because the media has been trying, as you say, relentlessly, to say this is the most secure election of all time and so on. By the way, the same people said that the Russians, by buying Facebook ads, sort of manipulated and controlled the last election. Now, suddenly, we’ve got an unbelievably secure process, but nevertheless, they can’t even convince their own side.

Even the Democrats know that there were clearly significant shenanigans, and I noticed that even some of the rhetoric has shifted from the fact that there’s supposedly no fraud to now there’s no widespread fraud. In other words, there is fraud. We kind of all know it’s on the Democratic side.

Interestingly, there are no questions about fraud on the Republican side that appears not to be attempted. But the argument is that there’s not enough fraud for us to question the result or the outcome.

So, I think here the question is whether the Republicans can effectively deploy either a Supreme Court strategy or a strategy of persuading the state legislatures, which in these swing states happen to be Republicans.

Barry Nussbaum: Well, you raise an interesting point. There’s a minority, but it’s a healthy minority, as you said, Dinesh, of Democrats that believe the election has monkey business going on. There are half a dozen polls out on the GOP side. Between 50 and 80 percent of Republicans believe the election was stolen.

So, what would you advise Trump supporters at this point to do? Some are saying, well, we should just get on with it, and we’ll support Trump in 2024. We’ll work really hard to keep the Senate.

Other ones are saying we’re going to dig in, and this is a line that we will not allow to be crossed as far as we’re concerned. We are going to fight tooth and nail to the Supreme Court. What is the Dinesh D’Souza advice to those Republicans?

Dinesh D’Souza: I do think that the Trump team should pursue all legal means. What that means is that they should appeal all these cases up to the Supreme Court. Now, the Supreme Court can do one of two things, I think.

One is to say, look, it’s our job as the sort of referees of the process to make sure that there is such a thing as a legal vote and only legal votes count. This is how we’re going to make sure that happens. That’s one way to go. The other way is to say, look, there’s a problem here, but this is a problem that the Constitution says must be fixed through the state legislatures.

In other words, it is a problem, but it’s not our problem. We direct to state legislatures to fix it, and that would then imply a legislative remedy. I don’t know if a legislative remedy can be applied in this case. There’s really no reason it can’t. The Constitution very clearly gives the state legislatures Article II, Section 1, that explicit authority.

While the state legislatures can delegate it, they can say, well, this is our system for generating electors. They have every right to take that system back and say, no, we want it this time. We have enough doubts about the election.

We’re going to do it this way. So, none of this is illegal or unlawful. You know, the media keeps saying we’re trying to overturn the result of the election. No, Trump’s not trying to overturn the result of the election. He’s trying to prove that he won the election.

Barry Nussbaum: A profoundly different premise. So, what do you make of the rift? A week ago, Sydney Powell was on stage with Giuliani and everybody else in Trump’s legal team opening at the Salvo press conference.

Now Sydney in and Linn Wood have gone their own way on a parallel track, their theory is massive campaign fraud on an international conspiracy level revolving around Dominion’s machines and the software company that supported it.

The Trump lawyers are more traditional in their examination of why the election should be overturned, redone, decertified, turned over to the states, or turned over to the Congress. Are those two tracks incompatible?

Dinesh D’Souza: I don’t think they are, but they can be because the incompatibility comes when you start making suggestions to the effect that if they don’t, if the Georgia Governor does not act immediately and call a special session of the legislature, and if the two candidates, namely Loffler and Perdue, don’t demand that he do it and make him do it, then conservatives, Trumpster’s and Republicans should penalize the GOP by not voting in the runoffs in Georgia.

Now, this, to me, is terrible advice. Actually, political suicide. Why? Because if Trump wins, he needs a Republican Senate. Quite frankly, if Trump loses, we need a Republican Senate. So, either way, the conclusion for me is we need a Republican Senate.

Barry Nussbaum: Here’s the most important question I can ask an expert like you is Trump going to be successful at staying in office because of the fact that millions of votes shouldn’t be there and x millions of votes that should have been there that aren’t yet shown?

Dinesh D’Souza: You know, I wish I knew the answer to that, but it involves a legal pathway that I’m not privy to. It also involves the question of the backbone of these Republican state legislators, which remains to be determined.

A lot of Republicans at the local level get intimidated by the media and by the Left. Even if they feel like this is the right thing to do, it remains an open question will they actually do it? I continue to be convinced of Trump not only won the election but won it decisively.

It’s really odd in a presidential year for the Republicans to pick up what may end up being somewhere between 12 and 14 seats in the House, hold their Senate majority and lose the Presidency with an incumbent being defeated with a record like Trump. This is almost unheard of, and Trump also increased his margin by something like 10 million votes since the last time.

So, the idea that Biden went even over Obama, you got 80 million votes, this ridiculous individual who can who barely knows what day it is. I mean, this really defies not just common sense but any kind of rational computation.

Barry Nussbaum: I agree with you, 100 percent, and we’re both going to know in the next month whether or not the truth will prevail. Dinesh, thank you so much for joining us today on ATP Report. Please tell our viewers where they can find the United States of Socialism, where they can find Trump Card, and how can they follow you?

Dinesh D’Souza: You can follow me by going to my website, which is just DineshD’Souza.com. The movie Trump Card is playing on a whole bunch of platforms from Apple, iTunes to Google, to Amazon Prime. It’s kind of fun to watch it on your big-screen TV because I made it for the big screen, but you can really watch it on any device. Trumpcardthemovie.com, that’s the website.

Barry Nussbaum: I can’t give it a higher rating than everybody should go watch it and don’t rent it buy it. It’s scholarly, but you did a terrific job making it simple so that everybody can walk away going, “Oh, I get it, socialism really does suck. Now I know why.” So very well done. Dinesh. It was it’s a masterstroke, truly.

Dinesh D’Souza: I appreciate it. Thank you.

Barry Nussbaum: And for our viewers that haven’t yet subscribed to our text message alert system, please take out your cell phone, text the word truth to 88202. For ATP Report, I’m Barry Nussbaum.