Barry Nussbaum: Hello and welcome to ATP Report. I’m Barry Nussbaum. In just a second, I’m going to bring on our very esteemed and famous guest, but first, I want to remind all of you in ATP land to please, if you haven’t yet, subscribe to our text message alert system by simply taking out your cell phone.
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Okay. With that out of the way, I want to bring on Clare Lopez. Clare is the founder of Lopez Liberty. She writes for practically everybody on the subject of her expertise which is terrorism and especially Islamic Jihad around the world. She is the expert. Welcome back, Clare.
Clare Lopez: Thank you, Barry. Very glad to be back with you.
Barry Nussbaum: So, congratulations on conquering COVID, and I’m glad you can be with us today. It’s nice to see you happy and healthy and mostly recovered. So good for you.
Clare Lopez: Thank you. Thank you much.
Barry Nussbaum: So, on this anniversary of 9/11, we’re all thinking back to 20 years ago, and the news is not good, and I mean, the news of today. The Taliban just conquered Afghanistan in a matter of days, defeating the National Army that was equipped with billions in the best American-made war materiel, large and small guns, grenades, special operations equipment like night vision goggles, helicopters, planes, trucks, mobile launchers, et cetera.
I mean, it is a plethora of the best weaponry America could manufacture and ship over there. How is it possible, as an expert Clare, that this incredibly well-trained, supposedly, and stupendously well-equipped army got run over in days by some guys from the Middle Ages?
Clare Lopez: Well, you know, Barry, first of all, the Taliban offensive to retake all of Afghanistan has been going on for many, many months. The final push came in August of this year, 2021, and it seemed with lightning speed completed the takeover of Afghanistan, including Kabul. But here’s what I would say.
All of the training and all of the best and most modern and most advanced equipment in the world cannot replace an understanding of who the enemy is and why he fights.
And that is something that our national leadership, our national security leadership figures, never, ever did. They never understood why the Taliban fights. What it fights for and why it will never stop. And that’s in a nutshell.
I think why we’re looking at Taliban-controlled Afghanistan once again. And as I sent you in some notes earlier, I am concerned that what we’re looking at is past maybe prolog to what could be coming again.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, that you’re a great predictor of what I’m about to ask you because I’m thinking about the political relatives, I suppose, of the Taliban like al-Qaida on the anniversary week of 9/11. So, we struck back; supposedly, we wiped them out.
They were gone and buried in history. I’m talking about the relatives of al-Qaida to the Taliban. Do you think they’re really gone? And if not, are they going to come back?
Clare Lopez: No, they weren’t gone at all. I mean, the al-Qaida forces after 9/11 and the battles of Tora Bora and so forth split into different parties. Some went to cities in Pakistan, like prominently Quetta. I think Ayman al-Zawahiri, then the number two, now the number one for al-Qaida, went there and other leadership figures too.
Some hid out in the mountainous region between Afghanistan and Pakistan. But Osama bin Laden’s fighters and families went to Iran.
I don’t know if people understand what happened there, but in the wake of those battles, which they knew ahead of time would come after the 9/11 attacks, and they knew they would lose, and they knew they would have to have escape routes.
They were all planned ahead of time, and for the Iranian escape route, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the most prominent warlords going back to the 1980s and once again currently coming to the fore, prepared a bolt hole, if you will, for Osama bin Laden.
And here’s the other thing that a lot of people may not know, and that is that our President at the time, President George W. Bush, made an agreement not just with Iran, but with al-Qaida, and with the Saudis. That Osama bin Laden and his crew would be, what, kept, or housed in a safe haven, basically, inside of Iran.
Now to put the best spin on it, we might say that Bush thought he was bottling Bin Laden up. He was ordered to combat. He was off the battlefield.
Well, of course, none of that ever happened because the attacks continued right apace. But that’s maybe what he thought. But that’s the agreement that was made. And Bin Laden and all those others remained in Iran until mid-2010.
That’s when they moved to Abbottabad in Pakistan, where about one year later, our special operations forces took care of them.
But for those nine what plus years they were in Iran, and that was by agreement with the United States government.
Barry Nussbaum: That is so horrible and so unknown in the public’s mind. I hope you are successful, Clare, in getting that story out. We’ll help, obviously. So, the attacks of 9/11 were based on a literal interpretation of Islam going back to the 600s.
You have said many times that the jihad offensive that we saw on 9/11 that dropped the buildings and the plane, and the attack on the Pentagon literally began in the 600s and, in your words, will continue until we are conquered, or they are obliterated. Can you explain that because that’s a horrifying premise to our future, isn’t it?
Clare Lopez: Well, it sure is horrifying, but we have to face up to it, nevertheless. There were times in periods of our history that we did face up to it, that the forces of Western Christendom banded together and fought back. That’s not what’s going on right now.
Yes, the 600s was when Mohammed founded Islam when he made the hijra. By the way, this is if Mohammed ever existed. But that’s a whole other story that you need to talk to Robert Spencer about.
But nevertheless, as the story goes, the hijra, the move from Mecca to Medina in 622, marks the foundational date of Islam. Not because it’s Muhammad’s, what, birthdate or any other data associated with him, but no, because it marks the beginning of the shift to jihad on the part of the Muslims once they got to Medina.
Jihad continues to this very day as it must, according to Islamic doctrine. Because if you read Islamic scripture, the Quran in particular, which Muslims believe is the literal word of Allah. It’s not fundamentalist. It’s not literal. It’s not anything else. It’s the word of Allah and that is not to be discarded or ignored.
Verse 839 of the Quran says, ‘And fight them until there is no more tumult, no more division, and all be for Allah alone.’ That’s what it says. Those are the words of Allah and their belief, which means they are obligated to fight the entire world. The Darle Harb, the House of War, until it is subjugated, subsumed under the Dar al Islam, the House of Islam, Sharia as Afghanistan is now, or those forces themselves are defeated.
Barry Nussbaum: Well, that predicts perpetual war between the West and the followers of Mohammed. And that brings up another issue, which is this has been going on now for 1500 years, and there doesn’t seem to be any loss of momentum or discouragement as if eventually we’re going to win, they say to themselves.
And the passage of time means nothing. They remember dates of victories and dates of losses from centuries ago, and it seems to me this is going to be a forever war until there’s a winner and a loser. Am I correct?
Clare Lopez: You are correct, Barry. Good points. Absolutely. Because this is a doctrinal belief because it is based on what they consider to be divine revelation. They’re obligated generation after generation to continue jihad. There are ebbs and flows.
Sometimes they’re up, sometimes they’re down, but they will never, ever give up.
They will continue generation after generation to fight against any who are not subjugated to Islamic law and to Sharia because they believe that Allah has commanded them to do that, and if they don’t and are remiss, they’re going to wind up in hell. That’s what they believe.
Barry Nussbaum: Really bad news, Clare Lopez.
Clare Lopez: Yeah.
Barry Nussbaum: You’re just the messenger, but this is a really important message. Tell people where they can find out more about what you’re doing and where to follow your work, please.
Clare Lopez: Well, I am published often at the David Horowitz Freedom Center. The Glazov Gang, the FrontPage Magazine. Also at Citizens Commission on National Security, the United West, and of course, at American Truth Project, where if you would like to subscribe to my own personal text messaging service, you can input LOPEZ my name and caps L-O-P-E-Z and send that to the number 88202 and you’ll receive notices of programs like this, which we are going to be probably instituting on an even more regular basis than we have in the past. We won’t overwhelm you, we promise, but you’ll get notifications whenever these are coming out.
Barry Nussbaum: Very well said. And please listen to this woman. Her CV, her background is impeccable. She is an expert on what she’s talking about, and if you don’t listen, it’s on you because you have the opportunity to be educated. Thanks for joining us today. For ATP Report. I’m Barry Nussbaum.