Barry Nussbaum: Welcome to ATP Report. I’m Barry Nussbaum. We watched, along with hundreds of millions of people worldwide, the last debate between President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. The results of the debate are being formulated and reviewed. We’re going to jump in this morning and do it ourselves. We have a very special guest to analyze it with us. Daniel Greenfield is joining us. He is the Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center. He is a political commentator, an expert on all thing’s politics. We’re very happy to have him with us today. Welcome, Daniel.

Daniel Greenfield: Thank you so much for having me back.

Barry Nussbaum: Let’s talk about the issue that came out a few days ago contrary to moderator Kristen Welker’s attempt to sideline it. It became a very repeated discussion point last night that this is the biggest scandal in American political history, in my opinion, which is the Hunter Biden laptop. Daniel, how bad is the news on that computer, and why?

Daniel Greenfield: Well, the news just keeps getting worse and worse, and it’s having a ripple effect, which is that you have a former Hunter Biden associate now kind of coming out of the woodwork to provide new information. So, beyond the laptop, which is the motherload. You have two former business partners; Tony Bobulinski is more famous because of his press conference. You’ve got other caches of emails and messages that are coming forward. All this is really bad news for Hunter Biden.

Barry Nussbaum: His two partners in previous deals are now both convicted felons. One is in prison, Bevan Cooney. They just moved him, I believe, yesterday, Daniel, to a secret prison location to keep him alive. The other one is Devin Archer, who is awaiting sentencing. That was a previous scheme involving Native American tribes and a funding thing that was a big fraud. Is that a story that matters?

Daniel Greenfield: Of course, it matters. This really just highlights Hunter Biden’s record. Hunter Biden’s record, as we’re seeing, is increasingly Joe Biden’s record. The big question obviously has been to what extent does Hunter Biden affect Joe Biden? To what extent can the Democrats just say, “Well, this is the troubled son. His brother died. He obviously has addiction issues. His family has suffered all sorts of traumas, and Joe Biden was just standing by his son.” This is the Democrat talking point, but increasingly, you’re building connections to Joe Biden, which the Bobulinski press conference did.

As you see, more and more information released they are pivoting on Joe Biden was a private citizen some of the time. There is no actual evidence that he used his political authority to further his business interests. So, this is already a fallback.

They’re actually trying to manage the scandal and the scandals, making further inroads. Now, the material itself is obviously devastating because we’ve got two threads here. We’ve got one, the financial stuff, which you’ve mentioned. Two, we’ve got the sexual stuff which you briefly touched on.

As far as just the actual visceral images go the drug use, the alleged involvement of underage girls is obviously going to be seriously problematic on the very public level. Because communicating to the public something like Burisma, why this matters, why photos with Kazakh oligarchs matter, why a company in China matters that can be kind of tricky. But the visceral scandal stuff, that is what the media is really afraid of. This is why they aggressively blocked the original New York Post story.

Barry Nussbaum: Well, let’s touch first on what happened yesterday and the day before. Hunter’s more recent partner, the fellow that has gone public now, is turning over his cell phones, I understand today, to the FBI. He was scheduled to be interviewed by the Senate Homeland Security Committee, Ron Johnson’s Committee, the Republican Senator from Wisconsin. That was delayed because he is now with the FBI. Tell us what this guy talked about.

Daniel Greenfield: So, Tony, Bobulinski is pretty crucial because he actually serves as a kind of interface between the Chinese investors. This is a pretty damaging scandal because Ukraine, to a lot of Americans, is obscure. Kazakhstan is obscure. China is very much the enemy. You’ve got Chinese communist oligarchs involved in this. The second part is Tony Bobulinski’s claims that he can substantiate the connections between Joe Biden and Hunter Biden.

That is very much the kill shot as far as an election is concerned. So, you’ve got him coming forward and saying a number of things. First of all, Joe Biden was indeed the “Big Guy.” The “Big Guy” who was actually the source of at least some of the payments.

Barry Nussbaum: By the way, if I can interrupt for a second, Trump mentioned that three or four times, Daniel, and said, “Are you the Big Guy? Is that you? Are you the Big Man?” Biden just stared into the camera and didn’t say a word.

Daniel Greenfield: So, another thing when it comes to the debate and for that matter, Biden’s comments before and after is just what he’s denying and what he’s not denying. Despite everything, they do not deny that the laptop was there. They do not deny the authenticity of the messages themselves. They deny some of the implications of it, even though the implications are obviously clearly true.

For example, they are claiming that Hunter Biden never profited from China, obviously absurd. That he never personally took any foreign money, again, absurd. But he does not actually deny the specifics of it, which is in itself an admission. So, the bottom line here is that this is true. The problem, though, with some of the talking points, like the “Big Guy,” the media has blocked so many people from realizing this. The people who are listening to this are likely very well aware of what the “Big Guy” refers to. Some people at the debate are not, and this is really the challenge.

The question is: To what extent can the public be made aware of the details of the scandal? But as far as on the evidentiary level, there’s definite progress here. Connections are being made. When the Senate hearings actually happen, that should provide a good deal of important information. It will be harder and harder to ignore because it was initially just the New York Post story. You could block it. The more it spreads, the more the media has to engage with it, and the harder it becomes to contain it.

Barry Nussbaum: Well, let’s talk about the Senate for a second. You touched on it a minute ago. Ron Johnson, the chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, released an eighty-seven-page report raising concerns about the Biden family. Now, Senator Johnson has accused Hunter Biden and Joe Biden’s brothers of using their last name to make millions in the following shady deals. The four-point two million that Hunter got from Burisma, the three and a half million dollars that Hunter Biden got from the former wife of the now-deceased Mayor of Moscow.

Johnson has said, “This is an intricate web of international financial connections, money coming in and out, cash going back and forth between Hunter and his Chinese national contacts in Ukraine, in Russia and obviously in China.” He says, “It’s very troubling.” Is that committee going to be able to make enough noise to move the vote?

Daniel Greenfield: So, we’ve already seen a certain amount of action in this regard. For example, Tony Bobulinski came forward in large part because of the Johnson report that you just mentioned. The Johnson report actually told him things he did not know. Hunter Biden was depicting him as the CEO of Sinohawk. The report actually showed him that money was going to Hunter Biden and the Biden family that he was not even aware of and that he had been cheated as a result of that. Obviously, I think he’s reasonably concerned about being the patsy or the fall guy, but really, he said, “The report prompted him to come forward.” So, you’ve got multiple elements coming forward. You pull on different strings, and more stuff tumbles out.

You’ve got Tony Bobulinski coming forward in response to the report. You’ve got the Mac Shop that is actually bringing it all out there. Each time you add more material, and more material, it accumulates because more people start coming forward. That in and of itself is a kind of rock rolling down the cliff as it gathers speed, as it gathers speed, as it gathers speed, more material keeps coming out because there’s just so much out there. You mentioned that early on.

Hunter Biden has a track record of, let’s say, problematic business partners. A whole bunch of these people are not particularly reliable. The Biden’s are not very good at picking people who will stay quiet, unlike the Clintons. That’s the huge difference.

Barry Nussbaum: Well, let me just touch on one of those people. Peter Schweitzer at Breitbart explained that he got, get this, 26,000 emails from Mr. Cooney. Who is right now in prison convicted of fraud and a bunch of other counts, money laundering and blah, blah, blah. He was Hunter Biden’s partner. What do the emails show? Twenty-six thousand of them detailing these Hunter Biden deals. What do they show?

Daniel Greenfield: Peter Schweitzer is a fantastic investigator. As you just mentioned, the FBI’s basis for subpoenaing the Hunter Biden laptop seems to be money laundering. So, money laundering is very much at the center of this. If any charges are coming out of this, it would probably begin with wire fraud. Now, we don’t have everything yet, but we’re getting a bigger and bigger picture of the scope of these deals. The media is denying all this, but we had actually been reporting this back during the primaries. Everybody knew that Hunter Biden was doing some very shady things. There have been no direct connections to Joe Biden.

The emails are not a smoking gun in itself, but they provide more and more of a basis for building these connections. Now, we know that Joe Biden, and the people around him, were very concerned about being connected to this directly, which is why they spoke in code. We’ve seen, for example, the “Big Guy.” We’ve seen other text messages which specifically state, “Don’t mention Joe Biden unless your face to face in the room.” Which means don’t create a paper trail. If you’re going to avoid creating a paper trail, there’s just one reason for that, which is that you’re doing something that is basically illegal or so deeply problematic that you would not have a career after that.

So, we already know, first of all, that the emails are going to be limited use in making that direct connection. But the people coming forward themselves can testify. This functions very much like the Mafia. You don’t say certain things. You make certain indirect arrangements. You set up shell companies, which is what we’re seeing. But you don’t actually come forward and say this is what Joe wants. Instead, you make indirect references to the “Chairman” or the “Big Guy,” but as you get more eyewitnesses and get more people involved, those people can testify.

Barry Nussbaum: So, the news, as you said, is trickling out every day, and it’s like bad news on top of bad news, and two hours later, there’s another wheelbarrow full of bad news. Is it enough to move the outcome of the election into Trump’s favor?

Daniel Greenfield: Currently, this is what it’s coming down to. Can it accumulate enough to break this media dam? Now, the media dam itself is not as concerning as the social media dam because, for four years, big tech and the media have been planning how to deal with another repetition of the same scenario. Because the big Democratic autopsy after 2016 wasn’t that they lost because of messaging. It wasn’t that they lost because they didn’t campaign in Wisconsin.

Their message is that they lost because the media reported on Hillary’s emails. Social media, especially Facebook, allowed material damaging to Hillary Clinton to thrive on there and win so much engagement. So, everything they’ve done has been preparing for this. The moment the first Post story broke, they pushed the big red button that they had, and they began blocking it. However, blocking can only block so much. You can only throttle so much. You can only suppress so much. So, you get this accumulating water rising higher and higher. You’ve got this dam that they’ve built, and the dam is straining. It’s under pressure.

The more you try to bulk up the dam, the more people wonder what’s going on here? What are we talking about? Now the same media that won’t talk about this stuff will talk about Mitch McConnell’s hands. They are desperately going for distractions. We’re going with are Mitch McConnell’s bruised hands, discolored hands, evidence that he has a health problem? Let’s talk about this scene with Giuliani in the Borat clip. They’re trying to find distractions to avoid talking about the real issue. As this continues to escalate, you’ve got a Senate hearing. You’ve got FBI involvement; it becomes impossible to stop.

Barry Nussbaum: So, what’s the answer?

Daniel Greenfield: The answer is that I mean, I can’t predict the future. This election is strange enough that nobody can predict what’s going to happen. But I think the media is not going to succeed in continuing to block it. Their attempts to block it, actually are only making things worse. If they’d just gotten it out of the way and disposed of it, they would be in a better position. Right now, this is just kind of accumulating behind the Iron Curtain, and it’s spilling out, which is worse for them. For a lot of the public, the scandal itself is not going to be the determinant. For so many people, it’s the economy. It’s the coronavirus itself that they’re going to be voting on.

The Biden scandal is definitely going to be damaging because the Democrats have been running on his character. They’ve been running on look at Biden. He’s a very decent man. Ignore all the videos and pictures of him groping women. He is the embodiment of decency. He can make the country go back to normal. We won’t have any of this crazy stuff anymore, no more riots, no more constant media controversies. Things would be quiet. They would be normal. This scandal communicates that the crazy stuff is just getting started. If you vote for Biden, the insanity is just beginning.

Barry Nussbaum: Wow. Well, we’ll know in two weeks, or actually, it’s less than two weeks. Daniel, thanks for coming on today. Thank you to our viewers for watching this and all of our shows. You can subscribe to ATP by texting the word TRUTH to 88020. For ATP Report, I’m Barry Nussbaum.